IRC-only policy...

[Risu-chan]

I check here and the channel more often than I check the web page (^^; [img]wink.gif[/img] and so I hadn't realized (a) that there was now a policy of releasing some things ONLY on IRC and (b) that there are a fair number of viewers really upset by this.

(By the way, has anyone looked at the guestbook lately? In addition to the upset readers who don't have access to IRC, someone has hacked the guestbook server...)

I do think they have a legitimate point. One of several things that set Sakura-Crisis.net apart from almost all the other scanslation sites on the Web is that Sakura-Crisis.net (used to be) one of VERY few places in existence that still lets people have HTTP-based access to the entire lineup.

What's the reason the Yami doujinshi isn't going to be web-accessible?

Is it the content? (I'm sure it's no racier than Love Master.)

Is it the lack of web space? (We could ask for volunteers to host it the way we ask for volunteers for everything else.)

Is it just to draw people to the IRC channel? (That discriminates against people who don't or can't use IRC.)

I really liked S-C.net's policy of having everything accessible to everybody, and you have to admit that there are a lot more people with web browser access than IRC access.

This isn't a whine for myself. (I do have IRC and know the basics of how to use it.) This is a whine on behalf of the other readers who haven't registered with Hostboard but would like to have their opinions known.

(And the guestbook server's been hacked for quite a while... as in multiple weeks. I kept hoping somebody official was going to notice and fix it, but I'm not sure if people are paying attention to it, which kind of defeats its purpose in existing...)

Please, please, let's have a serious discussion of whether there's a good reason to break the long-standing policy of making everything accessible to everyone...

Done begging now...

<font color="#660033" size="1">[ September 17, 2003 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Risu-chan ]</font>

[Crystallyne]

Sample Guestbook entry:
**************************************
357
name: Extra sad person
email:
url:
message:
I knew it. For now, it will only be this one special thing you release through IRC only. Then, you will start to release more through IRC, and one day I will come to this site and the http downloads will be completely down. This is what always happens when a scanlation group creates an IRC channel. Well.

10:45 am - Saturday,September 13, 2003
**************************************

I think this person just about sums it up for me also. Being completely serious, there are just some people who simply can not download and use IRC software.
Ex: School computers (any public terminal, really)

I know that IRC is a wonderful way to communicate and share ideas (and manga), but it does limit the amount of people who can access it. I personally am not now using IRC and it's doubtful if I'll be able to use it in the future (personal reasons here). So I would probably miss this release and others like it (if more were to follow).

The sad part is, this guest seems to be resigned to the "inevitable" conclusion IRC will bring to Sakura-Crisis. I'm sure we all could list examples of scanlation websites that have done exactly as described, though. I know I'm not a decision-making member of Sakura-Crisis, so it's not really up to me. But I would very much like to know both Crisis' and Sakura's point of view on this topic (if Sakura is still around, that is).

There are good points about IRC. That isn't the real question. The real question is: Should Sakura-Crisis have an IRC only download?

Maybe, if the point is just to plug the IRC channel, releases could be made to IRC early, and then be available on http download at the next update. Then it would still be an advantage for those who do have IRC, but it would still be available to everyone else, as well.

Okay, it's hard being so serious for so long, but I think I've completely expressed my opinion on the matter. And I am really interested in hearing what others think about this, too. After all, that is the point of a messageboard, right?

~Crystal

[tenjou_sama]

I never read anything on the website, or seen in the channel that S-C.net would be switching over to IRC. The doujinshi was something to give people an inccentive to go into the IRC channel, and plus the doujinshi hasn't even been completed yet. It's only a teaser being served.

Katze even posted this on the main site today:

Not really an update, but more of a response to emails and guestbook entries we've gotten concerning the irc deal. We will NOT EVER stop serving releases on http, I NEVER said that the new doujinshi won't be available on http at some point in time, it just won't be anytime in the near future. You'll just have to wait for it if you cannot use Mirc, or get a friend to get it for you or something. Releasing things first on IRC helps us keep the massive amounts of bandwidth this site uses down so we can provide more scanlations for you. So stop whining about how 'unfair' it is and I hope you understand.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The whole point of the IRC channel is to have new releases on it first, and then put them on the website. That way, bandwidth won't be so high. Everyone still get's a chance to download it, but those who use IRC will be able to get it sooner.

As for the guestbook. The images for the guestbook were hosted on the free image hosting site iownjoo.com (so as to save space) and my guess is that iownjoo.com is no longer allowing the images to be linked directly. (much like angelfire did)

So, in conclusion...everyone still has access to everything. The only difference is that the people who hop on IRC will get it sooner than those who don't.

For example: I'll be finished with the first part of Ludwig Kakumei Friday, so it will be served on the IRC channel Friday or Saturday. But it might not make it onto the site until sometime next week.

As for the guestbook entries themselves...I'm not going into that very deep except to say that I understand if someone cannot have access to IRC, and why they would be upset. But entries like this one leave a bitter taste in my mouth:

I hate IRC channel!!! [img]frown.gif[/img] Please scanlate more mangas on the site, please!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So really...this is quite a big misunderstanding ^^ S-C.net isn't going to an IRC-Only policy.

Tsukiyama: My IRC nick is Carole XD I'm so creative ^^

<font color="#660033" size="1">[ September 17, 2003 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Carole Ann ]</font>

[yukawai]

Everything,s being said, I just might add that this policy will not realy reflect much, since it'll be up on the ftp after a while not that long after I hope, and still as rugularlysince the day gap will always be the same. The only thing the person using Irc should be carefull about, is to not start a discution about that or that one lately relased chapter until it's out on http too because it'll be spoilers for the others, so just be carefull aobut that. (or clrealy indicate it's a spoiler, but to try to evoid it the more you can ywould be better altogether, so that others don't have to wait a long time before expressing themselves on it and the discution is dead already...)

Otherwise, I'm as originals as a tetraplegic beaver so I'm loged on Yue Xumeragi. I used to go by Yue only but then encounter a few *hahem, LOT* of problems with people confusing me with yue-san T___T;; but I find IRC great, especialy isf Risu accept to do more online jap-teaching some time *puppy eyes* ?___?~

[Risu-chan]

(light bulb goes on!)

Relieved to find out that IRC-only doesn't mean IRC-only, just... um...

...^^;;;; I've got an idea. How about the next time something comes out on IRC first, with the known intention of putting it out on HTTP later, then what about phrasing it like IRC-first instead of IRC-only?

(sweatdrop) I tended to read the phrase "IRC-only" which was used in the front-page announcements as meaning "only on IRC," which I figure a fair number of people must also have done...

So if the announcements could say something like "____ is being released first on IRC, with the web version to follow (insert approximate time estimate)", then it might solve a lot of confusion...?

(taking off tech writer hat now)

Anyway, glad to find out that things are still going to be web-released... ^^;;;

ed: (temporarily putting on puzzled ex-security officer hat) and I'm amazed any self-respecting web firm would call itself iownjoo, considering how directly that's script-kiddie speak for "I'm going to take over your system." I seriously thought that was a hacker pulling a prank, not the actual hosting service... @_@;;;;

<font color="#660033" size="1">[ September 17, 2003 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Risu-chan ]</font>

[Crystallyne]

Well, I feel better now, too, but I still don't understand why Katze is "slightly miffed". If she uses the phrase "IRC only" several times in an update, people are going to interpret that as meaning: "only released on IRC". I know that sounds stupid to state the obvious like that, but it was her update that brought this discussion (plus the flurries of emails and guestbook entries) into her lap. And she's a manager now (Yay, new people!) so I'm betting she's going to have to put up with stuff like this a lot. It just comes with the territory (even though we all might wish that everyone on the internet was nice and understanding, it doesn't happen like that).

@Carole: I definitely agree, though, that some people are just too rude in the guestbook. When you get down to the bare facts, Sakura-Crisis is doing all of these scanlations on their own time, money, etc. So we should all just be grateful (lots of love, Crisis! [img]graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ).

Okay, I'm done rambling now. Time to think of how to convince certain people in my household that IRC is not going to crash the computer! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

~Crystal

[Reikou Hitakana]

I personally think it's better to realese things on IRC first. Even if we do have a limitless supply of ppl offering bandwidth, the idea is that we don't have to suck up so much bandwidth from people generous enough to give it to us. And if ppl can't use IRC, that just means they didn't try hard enough to figure it out. I'm always willing to help ppl to learn. So anyway, if ppl don't want to use IRC, they just have to wait. In the end this should help solve a lot of bandwidth problems.

-Reikou

[rev.tsukiyama]

Personally, I dont mind IRC, but its no where near as convenient as html. (I'm checking out the channel right now). S-C.net has been quite unusal so far in it's decision to persevere with the http downloads, and I'm glad. I dont know about the manangemnt's opinions, but I think it would be a bad move to go over to the irc side entirely. I agree with crystal, release stuff earlier on irc, then put it up on the site eventually.
PS: what are we all known as in irc?
I usually use the name: tsukumogami.

[Reikou Hitakana]

Well if they're firewalled, unless their parents are so anal that they won't let them allow specific access to ports, then there shouldn't be a problem. As for public computers, you'd be suprised. I run an actual IRC client on a lot of computers here at school all the time when I want to download something. I've only encountered one computer lab that has sufficient security to override the use of outside programs. And I go to a major university. Fastest way is just to simply run mIRC or something off of a zip disk if you can't install it to the computer itself.

As for you, what OS are you running? I coulda sworn there was an IRC client for every OS including macs.

And anyway, I kinda glazed over technical reasons all together. A lot of ppl just can't seem to be bothered to learn IRC. That's what my point was.

-Reikou

[crystalgryphon]

Originally posted by Reikou Hitakana:
Well if they're firewalled, unless their parents are so anal that they won't let them allow specific access to ports, then there shouldn't be a problem. As for public computers, you'd be suprised. I run an actual IRC client on a lot of computers here at school all the time when I want to download something. I've only encountered one computer lab that has sufficient security to override the use of outside programs. And I go to a major university. Fastest way is just to simply run mIRC or something off of a zip disk if you can't install it to the computer itself.

As for you, what OS are you running? I coulda sworn there was an IRC client for every OS including macs.

And anyway, I kinda glazed over technical reasons all together. A lot of ppl just can't seem to be bothered to learn IRC. That's what my point was.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">::Sigh:: You're still assuming that everyone else's circumstances are the same as your own--sounds like the university you attend is pretty lax when it comes to people using the computer labs for non-class activities, frex. The one I attended as an undergrad had a "No chat programs in the labs" policy, and because there weren't nearly enough computers on the campus for everyone who wanted to use one, often enforced it in a downright Draconian manner (and the person standing behind you waiting for your comp was likely to inform on you if you tried to run chat software). People could--and did--lose accounts for running things like IRC on the public comps. Granted, they may have loosened up a bit since I graduated, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I have access to four computers at the moment. One (the one at work) is firewalled on most ports (or, more accurately, there's a network firewall that won't allow very much in or out) and asking to have that one lifted so I can use IRC could get me fired. The other three are on old-style phone-line modems with speeds of 28.8 to 33.6. Are there IRC clients available for them? Yes--I could probably even find one for the Windows 3.1 machine if I dug for it. However, my chances of keeping a connection stable for long enough to download a large file over IRC aren't really all that good, *and* I have a general policy of not putting chat or IM software on computers that I own for other (personal, not technical) reasons.

So. *Could* I use IRC? Yes, despite connection limitations. *Would* I? No. I'd rather miss out on stuff (as I do with Nakama) than install the software. That's my choice, and you'll note that I wasn't complaining about my own lack of access to these files, nor claiming that *I myself* had technical issues with IRC, I was complaining about *your assumption* that the only reason people won't use IRC is laziness or cluelessness, because I found it insulting.